Let's Talk About Brain Tumours

Episode 28 - What exactly is Gamma Knife?

• The Brain Tumour Charity • Episode 28

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In this episode, myself and Andy talk to Katie about Gamma Knife Radiotherapy also known as Stereotactic Radiotherapy.  Both Andy and Katie had this treatment when they had a recurrence of their brain tumours, they explain what the treatment entails and what it was like to undergo.

You can find out more about Gamma Knife Radiotherapy here

If you would like to talk to a member of our Support Team you can call 0808 800 0004 or email support@thebraintumourcharity.org


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If you would like to speak to a member of our support team you can call 0808 800 0004 or email support@thebraintumourcharity.org

Sarah:

Welcome to Let's Talk about brain tumours the podcast where we'll be talking to people who have been affected by brain tumour diagnosis, either their own diagnosis or the diagnosis of a loved one. We'll also be sharing news and updates and brain tumour charity about what we're doing to have the harm and double survival. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. In this episode, myself and Andy are going to be talking to our guest, Katie about Gamma Knife which also goes by the name of stereotactic radiotherapy. So welcome to the podcast.

Andy:

Hello.

Sarah:

Katie, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself? What your history is with brain tumours and how you come to be here today?

Katie:

Yes, so I was diagnosed back in 2016 with meningioma and I was told it was going to have to be removed pretty rapidly just because of the location and the size of it. So I had a craniotomy a few months later. And after surgery, I was told they'd have to leave with a residual tumour because it had attached to a blood vessel. And so I was given sort of six monthly scans, just to keep an eye on it. And for the next few years, everything was stable. And then I'll say the beginning of 2020, my neurosurgeon just that let me know that it's been quite a lot of growth in a short period of time. And he suggested gamma knife. So I would say about five months after that, I had the gamma knife. And I've seen really positive outcome from that. So it stabilised the tumour. And it's also reduced in size by a few millimetres, which is great.

Sarah:

And I remember when you first were told about it, and you were like, you know, what is it because everybody you know, I've read all these things online, some really scary things. And it's one of the reasons that I thought by doing this episode, so remember, you say, there wasn't a lot of information out there. And some of the information that you'd come across was was to put it bluntly, quite dodgy.

Katie:

Yes, I made the mistake of sort of looking at personal blogs, and sort of websites that weren't really NHS base or charity based. So when I heard kind of misinformation, so some people mentioned an actual knife, when in fact is radiotherapy, there's no knife involved. And that was quite off putting. And I looked at some other sites, and I just didn't really find reliable sort of information. So with hindsight, I wouldn't have looked at those sites and we're just focused on kind of going to charity side. So the NHS websites, the individual sort of hospital sites just for more information.

Sarah:

And I'm going to hand over to Andy to give his insight on what actually Gamma Knife or stereotactic radiotherapy actually is, Andy do you want to kind of break that down

Andy:

Yes thanks Sarah So for those who don't know me, I had a large meningioma diagnosed 2017 large enough that they had to take it out straightaway with by a craniotomy. Then I had regular annual scans. And then in January this year, they discovered some regrowth, which, thankfully, they said, it's just from a bit that was left behind. So after I'd been all clear for about three and a half years, for some reason, we'll probably never know it decided to regrow. So, I had my treatment in March of this year. And we'll talk a bit more about the treatment itself later on. Suffice to say I've had a good outcome so far. So yeah, when I was told about stereotactic radiosurgery, stereotactic radiotherapy, gamma knife I've even found the term, specially configured linear accelerators. Exactly. And I thought, like, what does that all mean? And the way

Sarah:

It's no wonder people don't know what it means when it's got all these different names,

Andy:

I know that CyberKnife as well, or Gamma Knife people go, Oh, does that mean they're cutting into your head again? And no, it doesn't. So what it is, is it's that they have sort of a low level radiation, which in itself cannot do any harm to your brain or anything around the brain. And then they have two streams of that radiation and where their streams cross, they combine to cause enough radiation to effectively kill the cells exactly at the point and only at the point where the beams collide. So I don't know if you remember the original Ghostbusters and they said Don't cross the beans. That's effectively what they're doing with sort of, if you call a Gamma Knife, so it doesn't do any harm to any part of your brain. Healthy accepts the point where it crosses so that's why they quite like to use Gamma Knife in a I was told it's in a small tumour that it's that's clearly bounded. So you can clearly see the edge of it and it's small enough and by small I was told below about three centimetres, they liked to use this treatment because they can targeted exactly where the tumour is just to kill off the tumour cells and leave the rest of the brain intact and untouched. And because they're not actually opening up your skull, it's a lot less traumatic for the patient.

Sarah:

And this is exactly why it was good for you, it wasn't the case, because your tumours wrapped around that nerve that any damage to that nerve could have had quite significant impacts on you.

Katie:

Yes, because it did mention about surgery, but they said it was so high risk for blood vessels nerves involved. Whereas as Andy said, it's just so targeted with the gamma knife, they just seen the safe options. So that's why I went for it.

Andy:

You want to tell us a bit about your treatment kit. And then I'll tell you about mine. And we'll see if it's the same before you start I was treated in Southampton, just so if people are wondering where we got treated.

Katie:

Yes, I was treated at Queen's Square in London. And because it was the middle of 2020, I was told that things will be slightly different. So I couldn't have a friend or family member with me. And they just kind of explained that to me beforehand. So I sort of knew that no one could come with me. Then I turned up on the day, I've been given lots of information beforehand. So my neurosurgeon rang me up to talk me through the whole day, which is really reassuring, because then when I turned up in the morning, I sort of knew what was going to happen. And I spoke to a nurse, she kind of explained how the day would go, my doctor came in as well, just to reiterate a few points. Then what happened is I had the frame fitted, which was the part I was most nervous about. But there were two nurses in there. There was a doctor, they were so efficient, it was so slick the whole process, I don't really have time to worry.

Sarah:

What is the mask sort of thing? Because that does sound quite scary. When you say have a mask fitted. What does that?

Katie:

Yes, so it can look scary. So when I saw it, it's sort of like a metal contraption almost. And it's attached to your head that sort of four sides. But then once it's actually attached, I didn't find it too bad. I think it looks a lot worse than it actually is. So.

Andy:

So did you have an MRI before that day as well, just to make sure that they knew exactly where they were going to target the radiation?

Katie:

Yes, we actually had an MRI after they fitted the frame. Okay, on the same day, on the same day, yes, that's what happened. So yes, efficient the frame, they left me for about 50 minutes to get used to it had to drink, make sure I was all right. Then I was taking for an MRI with the frame on, which is actually much more straightforward that I thought had a sort of pillow behind my head, people constantly talking to me on the radiographers to make sure it's all right. I was in there for about half an hour, then I came out, I was taken back to my room. And then I was told there'd be lots of treatment and planning. So I could kind of sit back for a while, maybe like an hour, I just watched them TV and this sort of thing.

Andy:

That sort of frame isn't over your face. As such, it's just sort of connected to your particular part of the brain of the head that they're going to go to the target.

Katie:

Exactly, yeah. So it doesn't cover your whole face or anything like that, I just have to take my glasses off, by sort of knew that would happen. So it didn't really come as a shocke or anything

Sarah:

It's not like, the the traditional radiotherapy mask that you have to go and get fitted and things like that.

Katie:

No, so it kind of comes down from two points in my forehead, and then at the back as well. But there's a hole area so you can see out of it, you can still eat and everything drink, which is good. And then after that I was taking take you through to the treatment room for my radiotherapy or the gamma knife. And that involved lying on the table and being kind of fitted to this sort of head support. So the frame sort of fitted within it. And it was good, because I could still speak to everybody or the medical team, they could speak to me make sure it's all right. And it took about 45 minutes for the whole treatment. So not as long as I thought I just had a bit of a snooze. So

Andy:

.And it was just the one treatment that you had yeah

Katie:

Just the one. Yes.

Andy:

That's good. What roughly roughly what size was your your tumour just so that you know, for the people? Because I've heard some people say they need maybe two or three treatments? Both of us just had the one?

Katie:

Yes, it was me because they said it was 2.9 centimetres, so the upper limit of what they could deal with. And they said they're going to do all the scans. And we'll I'll come back with a decision because on the day, I didn't know 100% If I was going to have the treatment, It all depended on the scans, but they wanted to get the most up to date scans. And then they said yes, one treatment would be the most suitable for me.

Andy:

Now that's just that might be reassuring for others as well to know that even when you're at the sort of the upper size limit it's still one treatment

Katie:

Yes, yes, exactly.

Andy:

Mine was slightly different. I've got my know this is a podcast, but I'll show that. That's my sort of mask. So mine was a traditional plastic mask. So my treatment so I had to go in about two weeks before my actual I called it zapping day for want of a better word but the day I was actually zapped They fitted the mouse so that it's it's interesting process. So there's about three or four nurses and they they get the warm mask and they press it into your face. And they leave it to set for half an hour. So obviously glasses off and that a little bit claustrophobic but then they're just chatting away. And you can just about talk through it. If you're not I mean, but it is right tight to the face. The only other good thing was I said, What music do you want? So I had some options. It's very eloquent dance music. So they said, Oh, not heard this one before we normally have Abba. Okay, they might have learned something. And I was if I'm honest. And so that was half an hour. And it was I was starting to get quite claustrophobic. But then I just said, Oh, could you just chat to me and we ended up chatting because it's about March ish time about the storms and they were talking about the storms and problems with the fence has been going down and and by the time I was chatting with him about that I'd almost forgotten where I was. So that was fitted. And then a week later, probably the worst thing for me because I'm not a massive fan of MRI. And we've done a podcast on scanxiety about that and how you can cope. But it was about a 35 minutes MRI, you know, one shot MRI. And that was a challenge because normally the 15 to 20 minute ones can be a bit interesting. But again, you know, they said we might have the music, I think it was in one of their best scanners as well.so they got out the music, I picked an album that was 42 minutes long think of right just listen to that through. So had the MRI and that was what they said is a very, very detailed cut. And that's where they get the exact location for it. I didn't need my mask on interestingly, for that, which was a relief. And then about about about a week later, I went back into the treatment. So like I said, it's like a brand new facility, I was on my own because in those days, there was still sort of COVID. So my wife waited outside, but that was fine. And you sort of you go in and then you lie on the table. And they put the mask on if it wasn't too bad. And then they actually clamp the mask to the table and you think. Oh, this isn't so good. Right? Don't Don't panic, you can breath but again, you know, they're chatting to you. They're there all the time in my when they had they said are having problems loading windows. So we we had about a five minute delay while they're getting the computers to talk. And I think that's encouraging. The actual treatment itself was only about 35 minutes, a mind where there were five, sort of zaps of about two and a half to three minutes. And in between when they would they don't move the lasers as such, they move the table. So they tilt the table and sort of move the table and so you're lying there and you're sort of they're talking to you throughout the whole process. So they actually, you know, by the time you get it done you're thinking is that it and I was thinking I wonder if the machines were actually switched on because I didn't feel a thing they said you might feel a warm sensation yes being treated for absolutely nothing not a job. So I was actually thinking it wasn't till about a week later when part of my hair fell out about the size of a couple of 50 pieces I thought at least this machines are switched on and so that so that the treatement itself, you know the worst performance for me was the MRI the actual zapping itself because you'd like to say you're lying you're just thinking about anything you want to think about and you don't you don't feel a thing so

Sarah:

Did you feel anything when you were actually on the table? Did you feel it when you were having there?

Katie:

Yes, so interestingly I did feel that air from my head sort of on the left side get a bit warmer but it only lasted for about four or five minutes I did just mention it to them this is completely normal nothing to worry about and then that quickly disappeared so nothing to be concerned about.

Andy:

I wonder if it's because mine I should have said the start mine was 1.4 centimetres by eight centimetre point eight centimetres so bad the size of a grape I guess so that it was near the surface but yeah, it didn't didn't didn't feel a thing. It was

Katie:

Oh brilliant. Yes.

Andy:

Which again was reassuring. So about your recovery. Katie, were you Did you feel anything afterwards in terms of sort of the days following.

Katie:

So after had the mask removed not mask the frame, I did feel a bit of sickness, but I was told us completely normal. I was given some anti sickness meds to take for a few days. And then after that I just had a couple of headaches the next sort of week and a bit of tiredness. But apart from that I didn't really notice much else.

Sarah:

did this all happen in one day for both of you? Did you just go in for the day and then have the treatment and go home or did you have to stay overnight?

Katie:

Just the day

Andy:

Yeah, same for me. I was I was literally walked over to the place had the the zapping, came out afterwards walked back to the car and drove home well my wife drove home. But yes, it just went back. It was it was like, it was quite surreal. It was like having an MRI in effect. When you go in, you have the MRI and then after you're just sort of you go home again, it was, again, for anyone having it or thinking of having it done or having it done in that sense. It's reassuring because you a little bit of discomfort. But other than that, it's it's amazing. I thought

Katie:

I feel exactly the same way. So suddenly is all over. And I just went out, went to the car, my parents drove me home and that was it. So it just felt like no more. I have an appointment. Really?

Andy:

Did it leave any marks on you where they detach the frame out of interest

Katie:

Yes, the 4 pin sites. So 2 at the front of my head, and 2 at the back. And I was told it would take about two weeks for them to sort of scab over and then kind of drop off eventually. And I was given some plasters,some antiseptic as well just to deal with them. And told if I had any swelling, or that sort of thing. But and I had no issues with that just sort of healed and that was it. So

Andy:

one something else did you have any steroids at all? Were you given any steroids?

Katie:

Yes, I was given dexamethasone, for I think it's five days just to help better swelling. What about you?

Andy:

Yeah, my mine was Dex as well. And it was it was just three days beforehand. So it was it was three days before and a very, very low dosage.

Katie:

Yes, yeah.

Andy:

So it for me, it didn't. When I had my craniotomy in 2017 I was on high doses of Dex for about four or five weeks. And that was surreal. Don't sleep you don't, you're hungry all the time, you'll get agitated. And when they said, right, you need to go on decks again, I think oh, here we go. But it literally was I think it was just the three days beforehand. low doses, I wouldn't have known I was on them. So I didn't have any problems sleeping. No, no midnight nibbles, and all that kind of stuff. Blow up, which I did five years ago. So again, if anyone's worried about that, I think it depends on your type of treatment, because I have heard other people saying they're on it for five days. And then it takes a couple of days afterwards to sort of you have to wean yourself off.

Katie:

Yes, I was this was it after the five days after. And then I was taught how to wean myself off. And if there's any issues, like just contact them directly. So that was really helpful.

Andy:

Yeah, so that's something else again, if people hear about that, it's for us. And I've heard other people say that it's not really that big an issue. It's, I think it's more preventative because it does prevent some swelling. And I was I was told that the tumour itself, because it's being irradiated and warmed up, it might swell a little bit, which is what they're worrying that it might then slightly impact on the brain around it, which is why you have this steroids to minimise the effects of that. So really doesn't impact on the brain at all around it.

Katie:

Yes, yeah. As always told us as well.

Andy:

Okay. And just again, for this, I was, I had, I think for about a week afterwards, it felt like I was more fatigued, so bit more tired, a bit more fatigued. So and by that, I mean, you know, the mental energy you have was even less, so you have to be really mindful. So if anyone is having it done, try not to plan anything for the sort of the week afterwards.

Sarah:

I think that's a good thing to mention, isn't it? Because you come back by the sound of it, you kind of go for it. It's minimally invasive on your physically so people can look at you after you've come out of it and think, Oh, you fine, it was nothing because, you know, you look, you haven't got a great big scar from surgery or to look at you, you probably look absolutely fine. Like you've just been to the dentist or something. And it's not been a big deal. But actually, you do need to protect yourself and put boundaries in place for that bit of recovery time.

Andy:

Yeah, it was it's because I was also told to drink quite a lot because I said, what happens to the tumour? Where does it go sort of thing. And again, they said, it depends on the individual and where the tumour is, but it typically they'll get reabsorbed into the brain. So as the tumour cells die off, and they won't all die off immediately can take a you know, a few weeks off, they'll get reabsorbed into the brain, which I thought okay, so it kind of answer the question and what they did say was for the next week or so, after your treatment drink even more than usual, I think anyone with a brain tumour we we drink for England anyway. Sorry, whatever country we're in. So I was told to drink a little bit more. And I didn't have any headaches at all. Not one. Yeah, I mean, I was I was also told that it may all go or it may still Have, you may still have some scar tissue left? They did, I'll be honest, I did say there's a small chance of an increased risk of seizures. Because the scar tissue that's left can give you another sort of route for electronic signals to go through. I think they had to tell you that you said I was so nine times out of 10. It's, it's, you know, perfectly successful works. And you don't even know just that you've had so and that that was the case for me. So after about a week after I had it, I was literally back to exactly where I was before. Unlike my first craniotomy with, I don't know how long you took Katie to recover, but mine was about eight months, probably to get back to work and full time and all those sorts of things. This literally within a week, I was I was no problems at all. And the only thing I did feel was was fatigue. I don't know how you how you felt,

Katie:

Same as you after my craniotomy, my recovery was six months to the year. And when I went back to work, I was still exhausted, fatigued. Whereas with this, I only really noticed a few sort of side effects. So the week after, and then I was just going back to my normal routine. And so yeah, I'd recommend that anybody just takes it easy for the first week and then see how they get on. So

Sarah:

and how long after you've had the treatment? Are they able to tell you that it's worked? Can they tell you that straightaway? like can they look at you know, straightaway and say it's worked? Or is there a period of time, obviously, because the swelling and stuff that they've got to give you before they can say yes, the treatment has definitely shrunk tumour

Katie:

So I first had an MRI three months after, and there was no increase in size. So they said stabilised it, which is brilliant. And then sort of six months after that. That was when I was told it had shrunk by two millimetres, which is pretty significant because it's expecting it to stabilised or that's the desired outcome. But it was actually shrunk which was brilliant.

Andy:

Oh, good. Yeah, mine was I had to wait three months. And the reason for that is because you can get some mild swelling around the site, again, because of it being heated. And because of what was being done. So wait three months had had the scan. And then this time I actually because we talked about scanxiety as well before, I already arranged the appointment to go actually in to see the sort of the neurosurgeon team. As soon as my scan results were ready. So that was about a week after the MRI itself. So that against about just over three minutes after treatment, I went in to see him and he said in my case, he said yeah, he said, It looks like a good outcome. It you could and he showed me that before and after scans on the sort of on his screen, you could see the after one, it was about two thirds the size of it was before. And he said that looks like it's a good outcome. So now I'll have another scan in six months, it was six months after the three months scan. If that makes sense. You haven't had three months. And for me it was another six months. So I'll have that on probably December, Jan time. And he said, that's probably the one where we'll be able to say categorically, it's worked. Because it should have either all disappeared or just be only some minor scar tissue left. At the moment. It's like it's sort of a cautiously optimistic is that the right turn. So it could have been worse. But he said, Yeah, it looks like you're gonna get get a good outcome. And then I'll have six monthly MRIs for a couple of years. And then back on to the annual MRIs assuming that everything has progressed as he's as he's expecting it to progress. The downside of that so you don't actually know is like Katie said till about six to nine months after the treatment, kind of whether it's worked, unless you're having symptoms, but usually this iI don't know about you Katie is every mine was so small, I didn't have any symptoms of it. It was only when they said in my annual MRI, you've got some regrowth i was like really? that'sthe first I knew of it. But you know, I'd much rather this than having the surgery, going through all that pain. And then your surgeon saying, Yeah, I think we've got it all now.

Sarah:

And you can have this as many times as you need it, can't you it's not like, Oh, you've had it once. Now we can't do that treatment. Again. It's something that they can do. If there was any regrowth or a period of time in the future where you were in this situation again, because like you said, Katie, you still got part of your tumour there that potentially might grow at some point. Hopefully not. But

Katie:

yes, so that's what I was told in the instance that it does decide to grow again, I kind of gamma knife again. So I think that's just very reassuring to know, especially as I had such a good result with it the first time minimal side effects. I'd much rather go for that as opposed to surgery. So

Andy:

yeah, same for me, he basically said he might become for someone like myself, it might now become a sort of common occurrence every two or three years. You get some regrowth from around the edge. They don't know what starts the regrowth said, but he said if that happens again, you know, because of having periodic MRIs little spotted early and you just get coming in and have gamma knife again. So there's no real limits to it. Which is again for me it's reassuring because for me the seal is broken in the sense I've had some regrowth which is always like, I never get some regrowth now I've had it actually wasn't too bad. And the treatment itself I you know, I wouldn't relish it because it is a little bit claustrophobic and a bit discomforting. However, if that's what it takes every three or four years, then you know, happy days. So yeah, I think to answer your question Sarah you can have it as with a reason as often as you like, and again, out of interest. I didn't say mines, a grade 2 meningioma so was. So they don't actually know whether the regrowth is grade 2, because they don't take it out. if that makes sense. However, they said from the size of it in the location, and the speed at which the slow speed, which is growing, this is grade 2. And as long as it stays gade 2, he said, we'll always find it before we get anywhere near. And then if, if the radiotherapy or radio surgery isn't appropriate, there's still chemo, there's still other radiation, and ultimately, there's still surgery. So it's quite nice to know, this is like the first line of defence. So Kate, what would you sort of your advice be to to others that have been told they need Gamma Knife? What would you sort of what would you say to them,

Katie:

I would say ask your doctor as many questions as possible. And don't be afraid to sort of email them. If you've got any concerns, or you just want to know something, I think it's much better to do that as opposed to wait till the day, then you might just feel a bit more worried. So just get everything out the way beforehand. Because I wanted to know about sort of eating and drinking on the day, you that seems quite minor compared to other things, but just the fact that I was told actually, you can still drink. I just felt better equipped to kind of deal with the day. So just keep in contact with the medical team and just keep speaking to them.

Andy:

Yeah, I'd be the same. And I was given a clinical nurse specialist. I think it was basically one person that was my Yeah, my my point of contact, which ironically, I didn't have when I was having a surgery five years ago. So that's, that's an improvement.

Sarah:

Yeah, that's the difference

Andy:

is yeah, that's good. And she was really good because I could email her and she'd get back within if not the straightaway but within a couple of days there was even a phone number there. She was very good at explaining it all. You got got some leaflets as well just explain what it was and the aftermath. And she was really good. So that's what I would suggest is if you if you're told that you need it, first of all, don't worry about it in the sense of it's not the experience that we've had and others I've spoken to that is not as nowhere near as traumatic as surgery, and certainly isn't anything to be feared. But like I say just ask questions are asked and no questions to daft like shall I ask about food on a day no asked about food, because it's part of the whole experience. And and also just not not to fear it but and also plan what you're going to do with your your mask, because you'll get I was given mine they said you want to take your mask home. I said, Well, do you want to keep it in case I need it again? And they said no, if you if you ever need Gamma Knife again, you go through the whole process from the start because your face might have changed,

Sarah:

I guess because it's so specific. It's so targeted that they can't afford to have a millimetre

Andy:

it's actually even a fraction of a millimetre so it seems a lot to go through and to have the masks tstaring at you but I'm other people untold have painted there's orange, Halloween and things like that. They're good plant holders, apparently because they got good drainage. But anyway, did you keep your sort of frame at all Katie or did you not want it?

Katie:

So they kept hold of it? I took a selfie though since it all my friends and family is interested to get their feedback. So I will say oh, you know, that looks quite heavy. Looks quite painful. But I had to say actually, no. Once it was attached within 10 minutes, it was fine. It wasn't particularly heavy. So

Sarah:

you did send me a picture. I remember getting the picture. Had a you had an actual surgical mask like face mask because

Katie:

Oh, yes.

Sarah:

and you actually said at the time that your COVID that your normal COVID face mask that everyone was wearing was actually worse than the actual

Katie:

so yeah, it was a relief to get off though, but definitely not as bad as I thought was gonna be.

Andy:

That's good. Did you have any hair loss at all?

Katie:

So the pin sights of the back so two of them. I noticed a bit of hair loss there. But it grew back within a few months. So that's the most

Andy:

Yeah because I was told because mine was I don't have it because it was near the surface I guess because the radiation crossovers, they said it might have killed off some of the follicles over the site. So I'm scratching my head for the people who can't see, I can't talk about that instinctively, reaching to it. But again, so that was about 2 50 pieces worth it sort of the hair fell out about two or three days later, but within about a month, it all grown back. So you're looking at me now, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know there's anything there. So again, if for reassurance, if you do have any hair loss, it's only very temporary, and it grows back afterwards. So so any sort of any last thoughts, Katie to sort of if someone's having it done in terms of realistically, what we do sort of say to them,

Katie:

I would say trusted medical advice, if a doctor is recommending it, there's a good reason for it. And on a day as well, I find it so helpful to have a bit of distractions, so that for me just involved watching a few videos, a few TV programmes, but the staff are brillaint they'll talk me through everything. And if you've got any questions, either before the treatment or during, definitely ask them.

Andy:

Yeah, that's good. That's good. I think I'd say the same the staff, again I was treated in Southamptom and the staff there were just fantastic. And I, I also the time when I was waiting down there, I got the, again, the feeling that I was on a bit of a production line, that this is a very, very, it's a fairly common procedure. So there's nothing novel or new or I was told, and I think there's no, there's nothing really risky about it obviously, depends where your tumour is and how big it is. But the treatment itself, there's virtually no risk. So if for me, it was reassuring to see other people going through what I'm going through, and they're all like, yeah, you know, some have been here before, you're almost thinking, Well, why am I why am I getting worried because this is just a fairly common low risk procedure. You know, almost like having an MRI or even going to the dentist or things like that. So you know, don't don't worry about it. Obviously, everyone's different and different people have different outcomes. And I know that some people get more than one treatment. So I've heard of people getting two or three, but no more than that. Typically, it is one sort of treatment session of about 35 to 40 minutes. So I wouldn't quite say enjoy it, but certainly don't don't fear it.

Sarah:

Yeah, brilliant. Well, thank you guys. I think, you know, we've covered everything. And I think that people are going to find this really, really helpful, especially if there's not an awful lot of information about it. So hearing from both of you your experiences of it and the outcomes that you've had with it. And I think that will reassure a lot of people. So thank you both very much. Thank you, Katie, for taking your time to be here today.

Andy:

Thank you. Thanks, Sarah. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to sort of hopefully put other people's mind at rest.

Sarah:

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