Episode 45 - Mummy has a lump

 If you are a parent who has recieved a brain tumour diagnosis, telling your children can be one of the hardest things to do.  In this episidode we talk to Simone Baldwin, the author of the book 'Mummy has a lump' which she wrote after recieving her own brain tumour diagnosis and struggled to find any resources for parents to help her explain to her young son.  Simone also went on to write 'Daddy has a lump'

You can find out more about Simone here 

You can find 'Mummy has a lump'  here and 'Daddy has a lump' here

You can also find more information about talking to children on our website here

You can find out more about our Children and Families Service here
You can email our Children and Families Team by emailing childrenandfamilies@thebraintumourcharity.org or calling our support line on 0808 800 0004

Better Safe Than Tumour

Money Advice Clinic

Transcript

Sarah: 0:38

Welcome to Let's talk about brain tumours, the podcast where we'll be talking to people who have been affected by brain tumour diagnosis, either their own diagnosis or the diagnosis of a loved one. We'll also be sharing news and updates andfrom the brain tumour charity about what we're doing to halve the harm and double survival. Welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, we're joined by Simone Baldwin, the author of the book, Mommy's got a lump, which she wrote after receiving her own diagnosis. So welcome to the podcast, Simone.

Simone: 1:07

Thank you very much.

Sarah: 1:09

Would you like to give us a little bit of an introduction to yourself, we always get our guests to tell us a little bit about themselves.

Simone: 1:16

Yeah, I'm Simone Baldwin, I was diagnosed with a vestibular schwannoma in 2017. It's a benign type of tumour, so I'm very fortunate, it's treatable. I had surgery, it was quite sizable, so it's done, I've lost my balance and hearing as a result, I've had a few other sort of procedures as a result, but on the whole, I'm doing okay. But I was a primary school teacher at the time and it's affected how I can work and it's, you know, it's had it's had some long term effect on on me and my family life. I'm a mom and a stepmom so when I was diagnosed, it was like so many people, it was a bit of a bolt out of the blue, I wasn't having a great deal of symptoms. So it was quite a shock and, like so many other people, you sort of having to decide, are you going to tell people what you're going to say? And am I going to tell the children? And what am I going to say? And I was quite surprised and and a bit bit sort of I felt a bit left in the dark, really the lack of resources and support for helping me explain to the children, so that was my biggest concern, what am I going to say to the boys?

Sarah: 2:32

Did you ask your healthcare professionals like you know, your consultants and stuff when you got diagnosed? How do I tell my children?

Simone: 2:39

I don't remember to be honest, I don't think I did. I know at the time, when I was actually told about my diagnosis myself, I was on my own. It was all a bit it's all a bit of a blur.

Andy: 2:51

Can I ask where you were was it, was it diagnosed in hospital? Or were you were you sort of outside?

Simone: 2:56

Yeah, I was diagnosed in hospital, but it I just been for um well, I say routine MRI, but I'd been for an MRI and I went for the results not expecting anything at all and then there was the big, the sort of the white picture in the middle, the white blob in the middle of the picture. So it was it was a bit of um, then obviously, they had to refer me on to it to a specialist so I didn't really know a lot about it at that stage. So I spoke to told my husband obviously and I decided at that time not to tell the boys until I knew a bit more and I think for us that was the right decision because I didn't know any answers myself. We didn't know if it was going to be treatable what those treatment options were going to be and they were obviously the kinds of questions that you want to be able to answer what's going to happen. So I think for me that that was the right decision at the time and it was a little while until I had a follow up appointment and then we had we got a few more answers. So then we decide to speak to them and I don't I don't remember actually asking at the time,what should I tell the boys. It was it was it was after then I started looking, looking for books and resource I'm I'm a primary school teacher. I've been a primary school teacher for a very long time and I'm used to kind of signposting parents for all sorts of issues and difficulties and family situations and I when you know, when I needed that myself, I didn't know where to turn and didn't know where to signpost myself to. It didn't seem to be that there was any obvious support for that specific, there was lots of support for me so I had it was, you know, instantly given it a nurse who could help me and me talk about my problems, but actually, I wasn't really concerned about me, I was concerned about my kids.

Sarah: 4:55

And that's so common that is so common and I think people forget that that as a parent, that is your primary concern is your children even even whatever's going on for you, you you know, your primary concern is how is this gonna affect them for the rest of their life? Because this is the sort of thing that could really impact a child way beyond like your diagnosis. As a parent you're thinking longer term of their whole life, aren't you?

Simone: 5:23

Exactly, and so the impact of your your illness and how what's that going to have on them, and then when you think sort of smaller and more immediate, the the telling of them the you want to get that right, you know, you don't want to inflict any more damage or any more upset than you need to and you want to get that right. I knew I wanted to tell the boys, our kids are very switched on, I'm not very good at hiding my emotions anyway so I knew fine, well, they would notice something was wrong very quickly, I felt quite dishonest that that small a very short period of time, when I decided sort of would just hold back till I knew a bit more information, that in itself felt quite difficult, but I knew that was the right thing. There was no way I was going to be able to not tell them long term and that was right for me and I think, you know, we give kids some credit, they're not daft and what I didn't want them doing is putting pieces together and coming up with something different or, you know, sort of realising something or hearing parts of conversations or seeing other people's reactions to me, because you can't control how other people react or what other people say, can you so I wanted to be in control of that.

Andy: 6:38

How old were there at the time.

Simone: 6:39

So my youngest was six, the older two were teenagers. So that was a bit easier to tell my step boys and there are resources for teens there were books available, but nothing for for young children, and and I got to get it, nobody really wants to think about it and telling young young children that but unfortunately, some of us end up having to and so you want to know that there's something there, I tried looking for pictures. So I knew I was going to explain it and again, I'm fortunate I worked with children a lot, so I was quite confident in speaking to him and knowing that I would explain it and what language I would potentially use. But so I wanted to look for some pictures of perhaps scanners to try and explain things and everything looks so clinical and so intimidating. Later on, when I knew I was gonna be going into hospital, I wanted some pictures of hospitals. We know he never really had experience of having a you know, sort of any family member who was poorly or going into hospital just to try and sort of

Sarah: 7:46

Prepare him yeah

Simone: 7:47

Yeah, Yeah

Sarah: 7:47

for what was to come so that he wouldn't be scared of what was happening to normalise it almost

Simone: 7:54

Yeah, make a little bit more familiar, but everything was so white and sterile and clinical and adult. So that was what sparked me and it wasn't at the time, I didn't think about creating something. At the time, it was just that why isn't there anything why isn't there anything these kids that you know, I need it and need it. So it was only it was a few years later and that I think that niggle had just never quite gone away and every now and again I started to have a I replayed telling him and and he's fine, we talk about it quite openly and I felt

Andy: 8:31

How did you tell him?

Simone: 8:33

we were playing um we were Lego, we were doing sort of Lego at the time. So I again I feel children needs there needs to be something to have an out so a focus. So a book is great because you can distract with the pictures or you can you know turn the next page it's just something that can be a little bit of a almost like an exit strategy, so there's no focus that the child doesn't have to engage in eye contact, if they don't want, they can just a little bit of an exit if it gets a little bit too uncomfortable, so you can be led by the child almost. So we were just doing Lego and I just explained that the doctors they found a bit of a lump in my head, and the doctor is going to have to try and take it out because it's making me quite poorly, and then the kids they come up with something it's great, they um. it's expected you prepare yourself for all these questions and you prepare yourself for why this might happen, they might you might be concerned about this you might get upset, he might have this and then it's never what you expect, so you know the things that they question. So then it was actually well, what is he going to make a hole in your head? You know, it was those questions? Oh, well, we Yes, yes, he will. We'll use a drill. Will it be a drill like daddy's? Oh, I don't know,well, it'll be a clean one, whatever it is, yeah, I'm sure it could be one so. Yeah, but it was nice to be able to be very kind of matter of fact, and I made sure I tried to stay very calm and I think children pick up on your own emotions, so again, I wanted to make sure when when we did look at the book and I worked with an illustrator who's done some beautiful pictures to try and have a feeling of calm and support because children pick up on our emotions don't they?

Sarah: 10:20

Yeah 100%

Simone: 10:21

And to try and kind of lead, it's okay you know, we these things are these things sometimes happen. We don't know and and I mentioned in the book, we don't know all the answers. We don't know what might happen. But we have to kind of just get on with these things sometimes and it's just a bit of a reassuring, here we are.

Sarah: 10:41

And you can't promise can you it because you don't know yourself, especially at point of diagnosis, you don't know do you know don't know those things and there's only so much information you have. Like you said, you didn't actually know how they were gonna get into your head. It's not things that you perhaps but you can't prepare yourself for every single question that they might potentially ask.

Simone: 11:02

And I think that's okay. I think as an adult, generally, whatever the topic is, it's, it's acceptable, isn't it as an adult to say to a child, sometimes, You know, I don't know the answer to that, but if I find out, or if I, you know, I will tell you, and I think that I have always been very honest, I might have, you know, sort of played things down a little bit. But I have been honest, or I've never been dishonest with the boys and so I have, you know, when I hadn't known the answer, I have kind of said, I don't know, if I find out or if I hear something different, I will tell you, but at the moment, I just don't know, to be honest with you and they've been fine with that. Oh, okay, fair enough.

Andy: 11:42

Can I just ask, did you try not to cry in front of your children? Or did you let it out? The reason I was because I was diagnosing in A&E and my daughter was 17 and she was actually with me, when we were diagnosed when I was got the, you've got a large cranial mass and I didn't want to burst into tears in front of her. I don't know why, whether it's a dad thing so I went off to a quiet room and had a good cry, and then came back again and tried to be a matter of fact about it. I was wondering, how did you try not to cry in front of him? Or did you just let it all out?

Simone: 12:15

No, I do try, I do try not to cry in front of him, but at the same time, and you're right, I don't know if that's right or wrong, to be honest. But I at the same time, I do also say, you know, it's it's okay, to be a bit sad, or he does know, if I'm feeling a bit sad. Or if I'm feeling a bit, you know, I'm sorry, Sam, I'm just, I've got a headache at the minute or I'm not feeling great today, or I'm feeling really sad at the moment and, you know, come and give us a hug, I'll be feeling better in a minute.

Sarah: 12:48

And I think that's helpful for children to know that it's okay for them to say that it's going to be natural in those instances, they may have anxiety and all of those things, that they will come out in dysfunctional ways, like if you make something taboo like, Oh, I can't do what mommy's illness because she'll get mad or because she'll they're upset, or it kind of gives them a way to talk about it.

Simone: 13:12

I think we one thing I've learned through through going through this myself is we we all as adults react to things in very different ways. So I, I haven't watched about that angry about my diagnosis. It's it's one of those things. I'm fortunate about the type of tumour I have, and about my prognosis. So maybe that's why I don't feel angry, but everybody, as adults, we accept things or don't in very different ways. So children the same, aren't they? So I think it's important that we give the message that however the child feels or wants to deal with things, it's okay. And I think that's one of the things that I've hopefully addressed in the book is that you can talk about it, or I think one of the lines, you know, talking may not be your thing you may just want to play. And another another bit in the book, actually one, one, page it's okay to feel confused or scared. It's okay, if people cry. Sometimes these things just happen. And we don't really know why. So I think it is important just to acknowledge that,

Sarah: 14:19

Yeah

Simone: 14:19

Like you say, we don't know the answers and I haven't ever tried to say what's going to happen in this book, because it is a book that everyone can use. It's just a very light touch because everybody's situation is so different. But it does just acknowledge that we might feel different and our situations are going to be very different.

Sarah: 14:38

And you've mentioned that you got somebody to do some illustrations, and if you for anybody who is listening, and you haven't seen the book, the illustrations in there are absolutely, I mean they are really, really beautiful. And I think it takes the sting out of the words because the illustrations are so beautiful that for a child, they can they can almost kind of get comfort from the illustrations.

Simone: 15:03

Yeah, they're, they're soft watercolour. They're all done done by hand, so Caroline Eames-Hughes did the illustrations. She doesn't use computer design, so she it's all done by hand and they're all kind of soft line drawings, I suppose. I'm not an artist, which is why I didn't try to do the pics, and then watercolour colour so it's it is it's trying to get that sort of job. little feeling of a hug in a book, really, because we can't make things better, and we can't sort of take the hurt away really, can we? But it's just that little bit of support to try and make a difficult situation, that one little bit of support at that difficult time is the one thing I've tried to try to do so that people who find themselves in situation that I had, don't have that same feeling of, there's just nothing for me, nobody, nobody thought of me, really.

Sarah: 16:00

Yeah, and I think, for somebody who's listening to this, and who's, you know, in a situation when they have just been diagnosed and are thinking, I don't know how I'm going to what, what do I even say, I think this book is such a good resource for parents. We all have our own language that you know, to talk to our children,but I think having a book that has really simple, soft, gentle language that just for any parent, that's thinking, I just don't know how to even approach this conversation. It's such a lovely, gentle way to have it, that isn't scary and demystifies things and opens up conversations.

Simone: 16:38

Thank you , yeah

Andy: 16:38

And if can I just say as well, I've just read it and it was very moving and I love the lines.,if you don't mind me reading it out, now, 'Maybe mummy can't do the things she used to for a while, but she will do the best she can in her own new mummy style. 'And that really resonated with me, because it's, it took me a couple of years to get used to the fact that I was going to be different after my diagnosis and treatment. And I think that's so moving and important to when children or young to make them realise that actually, you will be different. Not all bad, some might be good, but you will be different and that's not a bad thing, that's just how it's going to be so that I must admit reading that was like, I wish I'd had something like that to show my kids when they were sort of well, and myself, actually, because I didn't realise that for for a couple of years so that's, that's important. How do you think you have changed since since beforehand and do you think your children have noticed?

Simone: 17:38

Yeah, I am very different. I think both sort of inside and out in the things I can do our lifestyle, and it's impacted us as a whole family hugely. So I've had to change my career, the types of hobbies and activities I can do dramatically changed, you know, in simple terms, so that I can pace myself and manage my activity levels, as well as what I can do physically. But then, likewise, my attitudes have changed for the better, I think I don't worry about little stuff so much anymore. My perspective on life is so much more sort of positive and I'm far less easily kind of flapped and stressed about things. So on the one hand, you know, it's had a, you could argue it's had a detrimental effect and on the other, it's, it's perhaps a much more positive, I'm much more willing to take chances and go for things and embrace life. So it's yeah, it's a little bit different. But I do wonder, particularly the youngest how much he noticed, he obviously he does obviously know, and it's conversations that we have to keep going, you know, I, you know, I can't go there, or I'm going to struggle with that, how are we going to work around it, you know, I think places that he wants to go that I know are going to be really difficult for me to manage. So and he's aware of that, so we, you know, work things out as a family and how we best can do it and he understand why and again, I think that's why it was important for me that he understands what's gone on and that I told him, so, you know, we can work work things out.

Andy: 19:24

So you can explained it to him and he'll understand the sort of the fundamental reason yeah

Simone: 19:28

Yes, because I am different and yeah, that the things I can do are different. But I do wonder how much he remembers from before. I'm not really sure it'd be interesting conversation to have. It's not not a question I've had with him so it'd be quite an interesting one to have. But you're right, it is you and I think it was it took me quite a while probably a good couple of years before I kind of really fully appreciated the difference in me and and almost accepted it and I think you're almost it's almost like a grieving process you kind of have to go through for the old you.

Andy: 20:02

Yeah, yeah definitely

Simone: 20:03

And it takes a little while to kind of acknowledge what you're feeling sometimes and think actually, yeah, that that's what's going on and while there's part of me that is feeling great and I've made a great recovery you know, when you look on paper, what's gone what I've gone through and you think fantastic. I should be so lucky, why why is this something in me that's not quite the same and then you put your finger on anything. That's what it is. I'm just missing that bit of me from before and when you can acknowledge that and recognise it, I think it does make things touch that little bit easier.

Sarah: 20:36

And I think having those conversations earlier on help, too, because like you said, this isn't a one off conversation, it's a conversation, you're gonna have with your children for the rest of your life, because there are going to constantly be differences that are, you know, going to be there that as they grow as your son, particularly as he grows older, may see differences between you and other parents, for example, and having that language and understanding of, oh, that's why mommy can't do this, or that's why whatever the thing is, I think having those conversations early means that they can have a better understanding as they go through school because children notice my mom is different to my friend's mom, or why don't you do this? Or why you like this?

Simone: 21:24

I've overheard one of his friends asking him quite a while ago, I overheard one of his friends asking him why his mum uses a stick and you know, you sort of hold your breath, and oh, here we go, how's he going, how's he going to deal with this? What's gonna say? And he just went 'ah and my mom had a lump in her head'. Okay, yeah, fair enough.

Sarah: 21:51

And that's amazing that he would had a language of word, you know, he had the language to use that, like you'd given him the kind of language to say that rather than just standing there going I don't I don't know.

Simone: 22:03

And I think the confidence to say it's not a taboo subject.

Sarah: 22:07

Yeah.

Andy: 22:08

Yeah, yeah

Simone: 22:08

Well, that's, that's what it is, that's just the way it is now yeah.

Sarah: 22:13

Having it not be a taboo subject for you as a family. Like you said, it helps him to not feel it's something that he has to tiptoe around or be embarrassed about with his friends, like you said, it's something that he can be confident just to talk about.

Simone: 22:28

I think essentially, parents know their own children best, don't they and, and as parents, you have to trust your, your instinct for your own for your own kids, and for me, and my kids explaining to them sort of as much as I can. So now, he knows when I'm going for a checkup, really, because my mood changes and I'm very aware that I get that whole twitchiness when I go because I've still got it, so I had surgery, but I've got some tumour there, so I have growth, you know, it's monitored, and I'm aware that I get a little bit on edge, so my mood might be

Andy: 23:09

Scanxiety is a is a real thing, I don't know if you know

Simone: 23:12

It's a real thing, yeah, and so, you know, I do find that expresssion but myself I can be a little bit snappy, I think, not that I like to admit it. But, um, so I think I'm better just saying to him, I've got an appointment coming up. So I'm just gonna, we're going to check on I named mine, Roger, the lodger, my tumour. So we're gonna just check on Roger making sure it's behaving himself, it's not doing. So for us, that's the way that's the way it works. Obviously, that's not computable for everybody, and everybody knows their own children the best, and I think as parents, if I think my advice for any parents is just trust, trust your instincts, you know, the children, like my book, was because I wanted something like this and it might not be the thing, somebody else might read it and think, actually, that's not the way I want to go, that's not the language I want to use, that's not that and that's, that's perfectly alright, isn't it? And if my book helps help somebody to read it and think, actually, that's helped me decide that's not what I want to do, then, then it's how it hasn't

Andy: 24:14

That's equally as valuable, isn't it? Yeah, and I do love your picture of the MRI in the book

Simone: 24:15

Yeah. as well, because it's just because you're right, you're looking at it. I've tried to explain to my kids what an MRI is like, because I get sorry, you know the scanxiety, and then you get the nerves and just being in the can, and they have no concept of it and you show them a picture of it online, they go flipping heck dad. So it's nice to see that picture that just I don't know, softens it, if that makes sense and just shows it it's not, you know, a piece of cake, but it also softens it so that he'll then have an idea that's less clinical of what having an MRI is like so no, I thought I wish I'd had that picture a few years ago, I must admit. Well, that was the one of the few things that I'd said to Caroline, I absolutely want a scanner a picture in and that that came about because one of the days I think I'd had to ask a friend to pick him up from school because I had to go I have to travel quite a long way for my hospital appointments and scans because there's no hospital near me for my neurologist, so I had to have some some friends help with him. So I had to explain somebody else is picking you up, because I have a scan. Didn't think really what What's a scan? Ah? Oh, right. Okay, so Well, it all it is, is just a picture. Will it hurt? No, no, it's just a picture of my head. It's very clever, they get a picture inside my head. Very, very clever. So then you try and put, you know, the find a picture of a scanner ooohh they look terrifying. I can't show you that. You just have to accept it's just a picture. It's just, they're just going to take a picture. It doesn't hurt me. It's. And so I wanted a picture of a scanner that, you know, that just didn't look terrifying.

Andy: 25:56

It works, that's for sure.

Sarah: 25:59

Yeah, absolutely, and we've talked about the book being called mummy has a lump. But you've also got a daddy has a lump version, don't you?

Simone: 26:07

I have yeah, it was a friend asked me to create one, again, it hadn't really occurred to me, which is, I think, a short sighted on my part. But so yes, a friend asked me to create one, so there's a version called Daddy has a lump and also because I'm based in North Wales. So we have a version called my Mae gan Mam lwmp, version cymraeg havid which

Andy: 26:29

Multilingual, that's good.

Sarah: 26:32

Yeah, so if anyone out there is listening, this isn't just for mommies. This is if daddy has a diagnosis, there's also a version that people can have for that as well and I think it's just really helpful. Like he said, you know, whether they use it or not, sometimes just having a resource that you can look at and go, ah that's one way of doing it and sometimes knowing how you don't want to do it is as important as knowing how you do want to do it. So I think for most people, they probably would look at the book and think, yeah, this is gonna be really helpful. But even if you don't, it's like, ah, that might give you ideas of how you do or don't want to want to do it and I think it's that starting point, isn't it? Of starting the conversations, that is the hardest thing?

Simone: 27:12

Yeah, and that's the level of the book is just a conversation starter and it doesn't go into any detail, because obviously, I can't, I don't know anybody's circumstances and everybody's circumstances are very different. So it is just a support for that conversation starter, for those people that that want that bit of bit of support for that.

Sarah: 27:34

In some senses, that a bit like you said, with, you know, telling your son, children have that naivety and that kind of blissful ignorance, if you know that a child has they don't. So you as a parent are carrying all of that knowledge. Sometimes just having that something to you can hold, that's tangible that you can start it off is for you as a parent more important than it is for the child almost.

Simone: 27:59

Yes, I think so. Yeah, the whole process for us and for my son, when when I talk back to him, it was no big moment. It was no big thud centre of his world dropped out at all. He kind of doesn't really describe any big moment when I asked him, do you remember me being told telling you? Not really. Do you remember coming to visit me in hospital? Oh, yeah, I remember eating your pudding, you know, nothing was a big sort of a big deal, really, which is what you want, isn't it as a parent don't you? So the bigger deals are just that I can't do something, he's very, very caring towards me when I'm, you know, struggling or fall or you know, something happens. But in actual fact that those moments that I worried about most don't seem to have had a big negative impact on him.

Andy: 28:55

Can I ask, you say that end as you said in your book that you've you found it difficult talking to your stepsons you know because they're a bit older, have you ever thought maybe about during a book aimed at more that sort of age as well as you as you sort of go on the journey, maybe doing another book to reflect the as your children are older?

Simone: 29:16

No, I haven't. I know there are a few different books predominantly aimed at cancer patient for for teenagers whose parents have cancer specifically. I maybe I should do some research.

Andy: 29:31

Maybe there's a project for you.

Simone: 29:33

Yeah, maybe, I have never, I've never written a book. I still don't really wouldn't call myself an author. It's not something that I ever thought I had a book in me, you know, people talk about everyone's got a novel in them and what would your novel. It's never been something that's crossed my mind before, so I'm sort of just as surprised at having published something as as yeah, as my husband is about, yeah, my family are really it's still it still makes me chuckle.

Sarah: 30:02

You'd never know that looking at the book you'd think you have like a whole series of though like because it's the it's such a lovely well written book.

Andy: 30:11

Do you're kids, think your cool, now that you're on, you've got a book on Amazon?

Simone: 30:14

No I don't think they do

Andy: 30:18

Well you can tell them that you'll soon have a podcast on Spotify that might also

Simone: 30:23

Maybe that allowed a bit of kudos.

Sarah: 30:27

We'll put a link in the shownotes, for where you can get the book, is there anything any bits of advice or anything that you would give to parents that are perhaps listening to this thinking, I need to have that conversation and they're going around in their head, you know, because I'm sure that you had those moments where you lead in bed at night thinking, how am I going to do this? How am I going to tell them? How, you know, what do I say? What would you say?

Simone: 30:52

I think just be accepting we all we process things differently in in our own time, and children are the same. So if if children don't react, how you were expecting, or it doesn't play out how you expected it to in your head, doesn't mean to say you haven't done it right? Or it hasn't gone rght. It's gone, how it was going to go for your family, you know, it doesn't mean you've done something wrong. So you know, expect the unexpected. That that's kids, isn't it. And I think that's comes from both being a parent and have a career of working with children. So don't be hard on yourself. If it doesn't go how in your fairy tale, you will sit down beautifully, and it'll all go you know there'll be fairy tales, and the birds will be tweeting, and it'll be lovely. Don't be hard on yourself, if i's not like that.

Sarah: 31:46

I think it's like giving you that grace of knowing that it doesn't have to be perfect, just starting the conversation is better for them than not having conversation at all and for them to be listening in through the cracks in the door, you know, overhearing phone conversations and putting pieces together. Like you said, I think at the start, you didn't want your son to be hearing little snippets here and there and, and making his own conclusions, which oftentimes can be more scary for them when they're trying to fill in the blanks and they can see the worried looks from the adults around them that are there to keep them safe and suddenly all the adults around them are, you know, upset and stuff, but they don't know what's going on. So having a conversation and maybe not being perfect is probably better than not having the conversation at all.

Simone: 32:33

I think so. I think just just make make time for the kids so that if they do want to talk to you, you're, you're there with them and if they don't, then I'd say that's okay, too.

Sarah: 32:46

Well thank you very much, Simone, it's been an absolute pleasure, talking to you

Andy: 32:49

Yeah thanks Simone that's fantastic,

Sarah: 32:50

For a very difficult subject is such a beautiful, beautiful, wonderful book.

Simone: 32:56

Thank you.

Sarah: 32:59

We hope you enjoyed today's episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. If you'd like more information, you can visit our website at thebraintumourcharity.org or email our support team at support@the braintumourcharity.org And finally, before you go if you enjoyed this podcast, please can leave us a review on iTunes wherever you get your podcasts so we can reach more people and raise more awareness