Let's Talk About Brain Tumours
Join us as we talk to about all things brain tumours with those who have been diagnosed, their friends, parents, partners and children as well as with researchers, fundraisers and advocates. Find out how The Brain Tumour Charity is working to improve outcomes for those who are diagnosed with this unforgiving disease.
Please Note: We recognise that everyone's experience's are unique. Our guests are sharing their own personal experiences of diagnosis, treatment and care. These may differ from yours or those of your loved one.
Let's Talk About Brain Tumours
Episode 53 - Spotlight on exercise as a form of therapy
We talk to Liam Young about how physical fitness contributed to his recovery from treatment for a brain tumour. Liam found that the traditional route of counselling wasn't for him. His perfect form of therapy was with a personal trainer.
At 25 he had never prioritised his health, but after his diagnosis Liam realised how important it was and that led to him embarking on a fitness program which he says helped him to deal with the mental and emotional trauma of his diagnosis.
To find out more about how a brain tumour diagnosis can affect your mental health and the support available, take a look at our website
If you would like to speak to a member of our support team you can call 0808 800 0004 or email support@thebraintumourcharity.org
Welcome to Let's Talk about brain tumours, the podcast where we'll be talking to people who have been affected by brain tumour diagnosis, either their own diagnosis or the diagnosis of a loved one, we'll also be sharing news and updates from The Brain Tumour Charity about what we're doing to halve the harm and double survival. So welcome to the podcast. In this episode, we're going to be talking to Liam Young, about how he got diagnosed and how he used his diagnosis to really make positive changes in his life, to take something very negative and turn it into something very positive. So welcome to the podcast, Liam.
Liam Young:Hi ya thanks for having me.
Andy:Hi Liam
Sarah:Pleasure, perhaps we could start by you telling us a little bit about how you got diagnosed and sort of what your journey so far has been?
Liam Young:Yeah, so it was probably early 2019, that I found this small lump on the left side of my head, kind of just above my ear, it was pretty hard and kind of, when I put my finger on it, you could slightly move around and I didn't think anything of it for a while. But I kept moaning about it to my girlfriend and eventually, you know, we've got to about summer so summer of 2022. So I probably just moaned for about a year to her, which is really aggravating, she pushed me to go to the doctors in the end, just go and get checked out and I kept putting it off and I said, Okay, I'm finally going to go because this is not changing anytime I touched it you know, it hurts almost like a bruise. So yeah in kind of summer, I think it was August 2020. I went to the doctors and just said, you know, I've got this lump and they touched it and they said, Oh, this is fine. You're overworking the muscle in the left side of your head because you're stressed and you're grinding your teeth at night. Do you think you grind your teeth? And I said I'm not sure. But yeah, I definitely have certain levels of stress, as does everybody you know, I'm a film producer. That's my job. pretty highly stressful job at times. But yeah, I didn't know that was, you know, definitely causing it. But you know, listen to the doctor's advice and they told me that I ought to get a mouthguard to stop the grinding, and to go for counselling to sort out, like why the grinding is happening what with the stress, and, you know, counselling is never a bad thing like I'll even you know, as you know, that wasn't the case, but it still helped. But it got to kind of January, so I've been doing counselling for about four months and you know, using these mouthguard every night to stop, my teeth kind of being damaged basically by this grinding that was apparently happening and it got to about January and the counsellor said, you know, we think you're fine, like there's no stand out issues, even from the start there are no stand out issues. How is the lump and I was like it's actually got bigger so she said well actually think that's probably not mental health related, like maybe go back to your doctors and maybe request a scan. So I went back to the doctors in yeah, about February 2021.
Sarah:Were you having any other symptoms that you look back on now and think actually, or was it literally just the lump was
Liam Young:It was just a lump at that at that point. But I'm pretty clumsy person so I used to like, smack my head off stuff all the time, because I'm a pretty tall guy. I'm six foot three so I bang my head off the door all the time and I do remember and I still think this might be again, with symptoms we don't know what the exact symptoms are but I just have a feeling that I was cooking one day at my girlfriend's house and it was one of those big extractor hoods that was kind of over an island so it's pretty low and I went down to pick up a plate and come up full pelt, like as fast as I could, and smacked the left side of my head off this extractor fan and ever since then, that's when I started noticing this lump and I think it's kind of evolved into, you know, what we now know was a tumour, obviously,
Andy:Did you have any sort of weakness or changes on your, presumably on your right hand side if the lump was on the left,
Liam Young:No, actually, but we used to go for runs and obviously running is great to you know, you never feel bad after a run right? I always don't think you always feel great for doing any form of exercise and I used to go for these runs and come back and feel absolutely awful. Just like nearly throwing up and just starting to get headaches and it felt awful and it was always around that lump and I could feel it kind of like pulsing at times when I was like in a stressful situation. So yeah, that's how I got a feeling that that was what was the actual main cause of me smacking my head off this thing but I mean, who's to know like, you know, I just have a feeling. So then yeah, I went back to the doctors in around February and said they said, Oh no, it's fine. It's just a lipoma, that's what they said it was, which is kind of like just a cyst almost like a hernia that you can get removed, but you can kind of live with it, it's not going to cause any further damage to you and your health.
Andy:When you went back to the doctor that time with, with quite a prominant lump, presumably, did they ask you whether you'd had any other symptoms and whether you were fatigued at all? Or do they just literally look at the lump and go that's probably a cyst and not look sort of wider, if that makes sense.
Liam Young:Yeah, it was the latter so they did just look at it and say, Oh, that's what we think it is and they wanted to almost not let me carry on pursuing that. So I'm a pretty stubborn guy luckily,
Sarah:Good job.
Liam Young:And my girlfriend's even worse, like she was there and she said just push for, you know, any kind of scan. So I said, you know, could I just get this scanned? And they're like, do you really need to, and I said, I think I should like, just for peace of mind and I just think something's wrong and for anyone who's thinks that something is wrong, just trust your judgement, obviously, listen to the doctors, because they're the experts. But if you still think that something's wrong, like you know, your body best, and I think there's just Inklings that something's wrong and I still thought at that point this ain't right just send me for a scan, like peace of mind.
Andy:Trust, your instinct really isn't
Liam Young:100% and they sent me for an ultrasound in the May of 2021. I went for an ultrasound like the, they put the gel on my head and move the thing around that you kind of see pregnant women doing and I said to the guy who was just a nurse at the time, like he wasn't obviously, you know, he was just doing this as his job, he didn't know the ins and outs. I said, oh you know, when it was over, I said, What do you think? And he was like, Well, I'm not a medical expert but that is not just a lipoma that is not just an abrasion, that is something more serious, there's a lot of blood going into that area. So at that point, that was when I was like, Okay, I'm going to die. This is serious. I know what this is and always in the back of my mind. I always thought it was a brain tumour. I don't know why, but I always just had a feeling like a weird, weird feeling.
Andy:And had there been other instances of brain tumours in your family or friends to make you think that was just your instinct, again?
Liam Young:No never no one in my family, and tumours. So again, I was thinking, Oh, is this, you know, hereditary, and it's, it's just not. It's just completely random, as we know. So yeah, went for that ultrasound and then got the results back. Sorry, no, there was no results kind of on that, it was just like, Okay, well, we'll send you for blood tests and we'll send this ultrasound to a neurosurgeon. So that's when I first met with my neurologist in the September of 2021. So about four months after the ultrasound and doing a CT scan and a blood test,
Sarah:And how long after you'd first notice the lump was that?
Liam Young:It was it was two years since? Yeah, probably about two years. So a year since I went and got counselling and mouthguard, that was September 2020 and I first met my neurologist in September 2021. So since going to the doctors for the first time was a year until I actually got in touch with the neurologist and he said, and I've got the letter here. He said it's a lesion that likely represents an eosinophilic granuloma in a granuloma is a benign tumour like disorder, from proliferation of inflammatory cells. It's not a neoplastic tumour, let alone cancerous. But obviously, this is at the point where, you know, slight headaches are happening more and my personality changed, which, you know, I just went with it and I was like, okay, that's fine. If it's not cancerous, that's great and it's not a tumour. So we talked about it and I said, What would you do? What are the options here? And he said, personally, well he gave me two options, he said, you can either get it removed, because the headaches are going to get worse over time and you know, seizures will start happening, and it will get way worse for your kind of life. Or you can choose to not get it removed and live with it and just manage these headaches forever and at that point, obviously, knowing well being told that it wasn't a tumour and it wasn't cancerous. I had to have a good think about it and I didn't answer instantly. It was kind of like, well, if I have this surgery, I'm not gonna be able to drive for a while.
Sarah:And you're quite young, aren't you? You're I mean,
Andy:You were in your 20s weren't you?
Liam Young:Yeah I'm 28 at the moment, so 25,
Sarah:You're career building and all of those kinds of things. So this is quite a big important part of your life to be making that decision because if you're told it, this is going to probably get worse, your quality of life is gonna get worse. You must be thinking does that mean I'm not going to be able to continue working and what is this actually gonna
Liam Young:Yeah. 100% and, you know, I've just started a new mean? job at another agency and I was trying to, like you say improving my career and develop it as a director/producer. So it was a big decision for me to go, Well, I know I'm going to be out of action for a few weeks or months, I'm not going to be able to drive that's going to be an issue. So, you know, shall I just manage this for now? So I said, What do you think I should do? And he said, I would get it removed. So took the advice and said, Okay, let's get it removed. But then yeah, just going back to my last point, about kind of personality change as well that was another symptom, I guess, you know, the headaches are getting a little bit worse, and I was a different
Andy:Sounds like fatigue yeah person. And if I'm honest, I was just depressed, or was kind of like a shell of myself of what I used to be and what I am now, so for about two or three years as well, I was just miserable and never wanted to do anything and then just, if we speak about fatigue, I was way lazier, you know, I didn't want to do activities with my girlfriend on the weekend, like if we wanted
Liam Young:Yeah right and it was not in my character before to go for a walk, or just go to the pub, it was like, I just want to sit on the sofa all day and do nothing and watch rubbish on telly. that when we met and it's not my character now, obviously, you
Andy:But you wouldn't have known that at the time, would know. you because you're growing up for the first time you just does this happen to every 25/26 year old lad yeah
Liam Young:Yeah 100% and I thought it was just like, a second part of puberty or something. I didn't even think anything. I just thought what this is me, because that was me at the time and there was nothing else I could do about it. And yeah, it was a really rough time just for that personality change, like with relationships with my friends and my family and I didn't want to go out and yeah, thinking back to that now, I can't even believe that I was that kind of person, like, again, it feels like a lot of this feels like a dream sometimes in a well, maybe not a dream, maybe more of a nightmare.
Andy:And your girlfriend deserves a medal as well, but
Liam Young:Oh 100% and I'll get on to it in a bit like what situation we were in at the time of the surgery. It was it was really, really difficult to be honest and we were both in such a terrible situation. I wouldn't wish that situation on any couple. But, you know, we're here now we're both in a really good place really happy with our lives and it's like, well, if we And I know you weren't aware of it, but for your family that can get through that we can get through absolutely anything. So yeah. I said, Okay, well, I'll take this, I'll take it and this was in the September 2021. I said, Okay, let's do the surgery. So I went through a few MRI scans and CT scans, kind of like a staging CT scan and they did say because obviously it's not a tumour or it's not cancerous you could be waiting up to a year for the surgery because it's not, you know, we're not treating it as a priority, which I kind of understood at the time I thought, Okay, well, I can probably manage this for a year. The headaches are pretty bad. I must have been absolutely hell on earth, because they were You was taking two cocodamol every hour and it wasn't touching the sides at one point and within literally two months after that September, the headaches and the lump got significantly worse in a rapid amount of time and I had a hair cut in December, which is only like two months after and my girlfriend's screamed when I come and met her after I had a hair cut and I was like, what is up? And she went that lump is crazy. Like, that's not right. Like how are you headaches? And I was like, it's way worse. I couldn't do anything. I didn't talk when I used to go around. Her parents probably thought I was a bit antisocial and were presumably told it's going to be quite straightforward up probably wondering what's going on with me and you know, That' no, that's no good for someone's your girlfriend's parents to be thinking that right? On Boxing Day, it got really bad. So we went to a&e on Boxing Day, because I was just in agony and something needed to happen. We sat in a&e for like six hours and I decided you know, I'm just going to discharge myself because I can't sit here any longer. I just need to sleep and get into my bed. At that point. I was kind of in a stage where I could do nothing. I was so fatigued actually thinking about it. Yeah, I was definitely fatigued and I didn't want to because of where it is, we're gonna go in, take it out two pick up the phone and get in touch or anything like that and just want you to sit and work from home as much as possible. I remember going on a shoot in the January and we were filming some guy making this axe and I had to get in my car halfway through the day and have a nap because I was just beat like my head was just that bad. I was taking like CBD oil and like a sigh cocodamol tablets and nothing was touching the sides. So at that point, my girlfriend knew something was seriously wrong and again, I love her for it because she just rang the hours, and then three hours, four hours, you know, you neurologists office every single day pushing for the surgery. Like this needs to happen now the surgery needs to happen now like it's killing him and as we know, it was so if it wasn't for her I don't think I'd be talking to you today to be fair. She's definitely a keeper. She's fantastic. So we pushed and pushed and they set that they set the surgery for the 23rd of February. So it was two months after I'd gone to a&e that I had the surgery. The surgery was meant to be two hours to totally obviously are unaware of that, because you're under resect this, what we thought was a granuloma and obviously this granuloma, well, this tumour, as we know, had kind of grown in the skull, so it was pushing out of my skull. So It fractured my skull, and was pushing out so you could physically see that lump. But it was also pushing in against the brain, which was I presume and causing the headaches and if it pushed any further, and it grew any further, that's going to start to cause seizures, Touchwood would I have never had a anaesthetic, but your family are there going? What's happened? seizure, or an epileptic episode, ever. So they said, like I said the surgery was meant to be two hours, and I woke up after I was completely sedated for 16 hours in the end. I think the surgery, surgery was eight hours and then the other eight hours, I was kind of just induced in intensive care. So there was quite a large amount of blood lost. I think I lost three points during the surgery so Why is he not out yet? Yeah and I spoke to my parents about it, obviously, they were getting phone calls throughout the surgery and it's just horrible to think what they were going through at that time, obviously, I was asleep so I was none the wiser. So if anything, I was probably in the best situation to not be thinking about it. But I was also, you know, very close to death at this time, like, my mum just said that my dad was kind of just like, on the landing just on his knees just sitting there all night just couldn't talk and to just think that my dad and my mum and everybody for that matter was going through that it's just like, heartbreaking. So yeah, halfway into the surgerylike I said I lost three pints of blood and they rang my parents to say there's been a lot of blood loss, we're going to go and pack the blood with the radiologists and we once that's sorted, we're going to attempt to finish the surgery, we'll let you know. Again, a few more hours and my mum was going, I'm gonna go in the shower, I'm going to come out of this, once I'm out of the shower, I'm gonna call the hospital because we've still not heard anything and it's almost midnight and then as she pretty much went in the shower the phone rang, and they said, we've packed the blood, we've finished the surgery, Liam's breathing, we've put him on sedation, and we're gonna put them in intensive care and at that point, my dad who again, is pretty similar to me in terms of, you know, he's got no patients and he just wants answers and he's like, look, please tell me now, has he got brain damage and they just said, we don't know, we're going to have to wait until he wakes up. So again I was sedated until about 6am and they said, as soon as I come off sedation they was asking me to wiggle my toes and say my name and I was kind of giving them like the surfers like thumbs up and saying, why you asking me to wiggle my toes?
Sarah:Did you know at that point, because obviously to you, you thought you were going in for two hour surgery. Were you aware just by looking around people at that point that something else had happened or were you just like why is it what's the stress it's two hours?
Liam Young:Yeah so yeah, I don't particularly remember that point of me waking up and giving them thumbs up and stuff. But I do remember being in intensive care, just because I've got pictures and there's like a very slight memories of being in there. Obviously, I was so drugged up, I can barely remember much of it. But I'm glad I took pictures while I was in there, because it's kind of reminded me of what happened and the first significant moment of when I knew something was wrong. So I think the surgery is a 1pm and I was meant to wake up around four o'clock, because the surgery had to be two hours. So I thought okay, for five o'clock, that's fine and there was a clock straight in front of me and it was a really quiet room and I thought this isn't right. There's just like the odd beep here and there and there was curtains around me and I thought what's going on? I looked at the clock and it said nine o'clock. I thought Oh 9pm that took quite a while and I said to the nurse I said 9pm how come it's 9pm? And she went it's 9 am. I said what do you mean 9 am and she went let me talk to you about what's just happened and then obviously she said it's the next it's 9am the next day you went in it's the 24th of Feb because I asked me the day when I woke up they said what day is it? I said it's the 23rd of February my surgery? They went well it's actually the 24th you've been in here for 16 hours. Who's the Prime Minister? Where are you which I'm knew.
Andy:I remember those questions. I know my birthday
Liam Young:And I said is it Boris because he was when like everything was happening with Liz Truss I thought I don't actually no and I did think I was at my local hospital so this was at the Queen Elizabeth in Birmingham and I thought I was in Russels Hall in Dudly and I said Russels Hall and they went no you're at the QE and I went oh yeah, I'm at the QE and then that kind of reaffirmed that I remembered that I was there. So I was I was okay and then they let my girlfriend in, she just came and sat with me and just said I was just super tired and at that point, we knew that I was okay. Well, we thought we were, we thought I was okay.
Andy:Had they told you that the surgery appeared to have been successful at that point and that hopefully, that would be the end of it?
Liam Young:Yeah so the neurosurgeon came down pretty much not long after I'd woken up. So I was still in a daze and I was still, you know, my emotions were super high and I had no idea what was going on and like we mentioned, when we first met these neurosurgeons are a particular type of people, they're very blunt, and show no emotion
Andy:People of few words,
Liam Young:Yeah, 100% and I totally understand why they have It's like an epiphany when you go, you know, just right that's to be like that, right? Because they're delivering this news all the time, they have to just give you those bullet points, and I prefer stuff like that. I'd rather be told, here is what it is rather than tiptoeing around it and he came in, looked on my head, looked at my scar, everything looks neat surgery went well, we totally resected it, we actually think it might be a cancerous tumour, see ya. So I was sitting there just like in intensive care, blood all over me pretty much, just breaking my heart just going what is going on and that's when I said to the nurse, I was like, can anybody come in? And she said, I think we need somebody needs to come and see you do want your mum. You can have one person do you want your mum said no, I want my girlfriend. My girlfriend was at a party, she was at a wedding and she just drove back through the night because my mum was calling her and said, you know, I need to tell you the phone calls that we've had, it's gone pretty, you know, it didn't go grea but he's okay. So yeah like I say came at about three in the morning, and just sat with me and we just talked and I was pretty much drifting off all the time. So I was in intensive care for about two days and I was nervous in intensive care. I thought I'm in intensive care for a reason here. So I kept trying to push the doctor, the nurse, I said, Why am I here? Like something isn't right, something's still isn't right and she said, it's just beds. So you know, appreciate being in this one to one environment and you know, when you go on the ward, it's not going to be like this. So eventually went into the ward and I was on the ward, the normal kind of ward for about two days and that's when I kind of you know, was walking around and getting changed and I remember a poignant moment in I was talking to my girlfriend about this last night, there was a poignant moment when I was in that ward just and I took a picture of it. The sun was coming through the window, and I was just sitting in my joggers what happened before, now let's make something positive out of and my crocs and that was when I finally realised what had happened after like, four days, I was like, that was close. That was really, really close. What are you going to do about it now? We didn't even know it was cancerous at this point. So I thought life needs to change like that that was a terrible experience, and you nearly went there. It's too fast. what's happening or coming up.
Sarah:I guess at 25 nobody at 25 thinks they're going to have any kind of illness life threatening, right? I mean, not that anybody expects to get ill or get brain tumours. But I think as you get older, you're more used to having friends or whatever that have some sort of illness or, you know, you kind of get a bit more kind of why things are gonna start breaking down as when you get a bit older, but at 25 you're still like,
Andy:You're immortal then aren't you
Liam Young:Yeah like you say, Andy, like, I did feel imprtant I did feel like, I was untouchable really, and I was It was probably like, a bit fun to have bit time off school. prioritising my career and my relationships, like if you could have prior there's three things in life, I think and it's career relationships, slash family and health and health was at the bottom of my list of priorities for my whole life. I had my tonsils out when I was a kid, it was fine that was a bit of a priority but I didn't have a career, I was just playing my XBox right Yeah, it got to me at the time, because my throat was sore. So that was the first time in my life, my adult life that I had actually had to bring health to the forefront aned it was a really weird feeling because I've never even thought about it as you shouldn't, like you say, at that age. So yeah, it was a huge realisation of like, that was really close and you aren't immortal, like you can, you're human, and you can die. So appreciate life and then just from then that was like, okay, this attitude now towards life needs to be positive and I need my old character kind of personality to come back
Sarah:Did you at that point, because obviously, that's a really life changing moment but when you were going through that, were you kind of how did it affect you then or did you just kind of think I just need to get through this. I'm just going to do it.
Liam Young:Yeah it was more of like a bullet point list of like, okay, so yeah, week after the surgery he called to say yeah, it was a cancerous tumour, it was a grade three solitary fibrous tumour which we knew was cancerous, but it was totally resected. So I went to forgive me the name of the people that do radiotherapy, when I spoke to somebody who is now my consultant, and we began radiotherapy in the May, and that was 30 rounds of radiotherapy every single day and I'd been told that, you know, stay positive, because some scientists believe that if you are just genuinely positive towards radiotherapy or chemotherapy, you will get better results. So I just thought, just to answer your question, again, kind of how I dealt with it was that positive attitude and just treating it as a routine. So I said to them, when they asked me what timings I wanted, I said, can you do it every day before 9am. So I went there, at 8am every day, had my head kind of zapped for 15 minutes, and then went straight to work.
Sarah:That's quite hardcore.
Liam Young:And on the third on the 30th, day, I went to work and I was on the shoe that day, and just went through it.
Sarah:So you had major surgery, and then you having radiotherapy and you're not skipping a beat. You're like, I'm going to just power through this.
Liam Young:Yeah, I was like, yeah, and it was like, my body's been through hell and back. So to go through radiotherapy, that's nothing compared to what your brain has just been through when it's been, you know, take apart it's been taken out, and you've been stitched up and you've got a huge scar and
Andy:Do you think there's an element that perhaps of relief, and a sense of you said, in the year or two beforehand, you were feeling sort of down and depressed and that at least a kind of had a reason for why and this almost felt like a fresh start. Do you think that sort of helps with your, because a lot of people listening to this probably think how can you flick that switch almost from being down and depressed with all the symptoms, and then after surgery, almost straightaway, you're feeling much more positive that's, that's quite an impressive change,
Liam Young:Yeah it's weird and I can't put my finger on the why. It's just, I think it's, it's that fear of immortality, right of like, I was always fearing that and then when it nearly happens, it's like oh okay, you shouldn't be thinking about that all your life you should be and again, I know it sounds cheesy, but you should genuinely treat every day as if it's your last and that's the mentality that I still have now and putting my body through things that is testing me like, I think that's why I run so much and try and challenge myself so much with physical things, because I know that I was way closer to death than whatever I can do now, you know, yeah and it was difficult at the time as well. I just wanted to talk about, you know, not being able to drive like that was something that was really difficult for me weirdly, because that I just felt like I wasn't free. I didn't have my freedom and I was constant relying on people like my uncle and my neighbour took me to the hospital every single day, which you know, going from Dudley all the way over to Birmingham, at rush hour isn't great.
Sarah:I was gonna say because you it was your choice to have it at that time so you obviously had to get people up at eight o'clock to
Liam Young:Yeah, so I live in Wolverhampton at the moment and my girlfriend was taking me at like 7am probably earlier than that. If I was to get yeah, probably like 6am. She was driving me to my parents in Dudley and then someone around like my uncle or their neighbour who are family friends would come and take me to the QE for 8am and then 8am until half past eight, I'd do radiotherapy while they waited in their car. Then they'd take to work, which was in like, at the top of Birmingham and then someone from work would take me home every day. So I was relying on people constantly and I had that feeling of guilt all the time. But what I would say is just appreciate those people and I don't think they like if they're saying like they will do these things, like, first of all, they're just amazing humans and second of all, I think you just have to accept that look, you can't drive these people are helping you just take it and appreciating it.
Sarah:And to be honest, even if you could drive, it probably would have been absolutely the worst thing to do because driving, having treatment and then driving anywhere because even though you had a positive mindset and you were powering through it, doing this one sort of treatment to save you live but at the other hand, you're then taking a huge risk that could
Liam Young:And I totally get it I totally got why they told me that I couldn't drive and to be fair, it's only been about nine months since I've been able to drive again just have to constantly going back to the DVLA back and forth back and forth because I wanted to drive like after radiotherapy had finished. Someone was still taking me to work every single day and then I got a new job and someone was still taking me to work every single day and that was only like say it's less than a year ago, I think I got my licence back in March this year.
Andy:It just occurred it reminded me have you still got your mask from the radiotherapy or did you because some people like ceremoniously burned them, some people keep them with have their plants in it and others sort of paint them and use them on Halloween.
Liam Young:Ours he's hanging up in the loft in the dark, so when you go up in the loft, it's just there and it's just like, I just think it's hilarious just to have it hanging in the loft
Sarah:One of the things that when we first met and talked about was, how you have how it has changed your priorities, and how how has become such a major kind of part of your life now?
Liam Young:Yeah so obviously, after finishing radiotherapy in the June last year, it was a whole realisation of like, what am I going to do with my life now? And like you said before, when we first met, I think going through that is sometimes you know what's going to happen so you can kind of process at the time and then when it's all over, it's like well done Liam great you're all clear bye. What do I do now? Like that is when I first like, started digesting it and actually started getting upset about what I'd been through like trauma, almost, I suppose. And it was really hard to process and I thought, I've done the counselling, this isn't for me, like something else needs to happen and I want to change my life. What is what are the what are the things in my life now that I'm unhappy with? And I wasn't happy with my weight I was overweight and I wanted to get some weight off ao
Sarah:Was that because of treatment, or were you always a little bit on the chunky side? What was the?
Liam Young:I was Yeah, I was always a bit of a chubby boy.
Andy:Becareful how you say that
Liam Young:Yeah, I was always a big boned
Andy:You're about you're above the optimum weight for your Were you on steroids as well, presumably after the surgery height.
Liam Young:100% yeah so like, the height the heaviest I've got so I'm six foot three and I was like touching 19 stone, which is bloody heavy so I signed up to a fitness programme in November of last year. So it was kind of between summer and November, and right at the time. Sorry I forgot to say, when the surgery happened, obviously, I was on sick pay me and my girlfriend had just got a mortgage on our first house and she was just made redundant and all of this was happening. So we were working on the house and like doing stuff all the time and I was pretty tired. But I remembered while going through radiotherapy. I was like, on top of our shed, like disassembling it with a drill and my girlfriend said, should you be up there? I thought well, probably not but we need to get the house done right, we want to move in. So yeah, the summer was kind of doing the house and like going back to work and, you know, working that out and we went away to Cape Verde, and I saw a photo of myself on the beach and my head like a beach ball, because I think there was a bit of swelling from the because I had nothing surgery, but ultimately, you know, no excuses. I was fat
Andy:Oh really,
Liam Young:I, it was weird like, in the ward, they kind of came around and like took the staples out of my head and come and checked the scar, the neurosurgeons and eventually they just said you can go home now
Andy:Because I had radiotherapy myself sorry, last year just to sort of some stereotactic to zap some regrowth and I was on steroids for about 10 days beforehand and a week afterwards and they said just in case there's any swelling. So I'm surprised. I'm surprised you weren't on any steroids, that's, that's interesting, okay,
Liam Young:No, the only slight side effect of radiotherapy was that I lost the left side of my hair. Which again, that is something that I'm super self conscious about. Even now, like
Sarah:That must of been so surreal to go through this it's still not growing back properly, it's very slow growth, it's gonna take a while, I don't even know if he's gonna grow up properly. So that's why I always put a cap on because I am still self conscious about that and I don't think that's a bad thing. But it's a shame like, you know, even though like I've come through this, and I've got way more confidence, there's still things that I'm still not confident about and I'm still dealing with that, as of now and for however long it takes for my hair to grow back because it just looks weird to me and especially, you know, before the surgery I was somebody had this like, massive kind of big quiff and that was part of my personality, and it's gone and I don't like it and yeah, I am really self conscious about it. So you stick it out on instead, I spent a lot of money on hats. Which was kind of not unusual because I used to do that anyway, but yeah, so that you know, there was no like when I've got discharged from the hospital, and this was after the surgery. They just said just you can just go home. I was like so what's the process now, do I need to go and get any paracetamol? And they went no so I just walked out, walked straight out to the car park and rang my mum, it was weird. really like life changing experience this whole you know, you nearly died kind of experience and then just to kind
Liam Young:4 days later it's like yeah, just go just leave, of ike there's, there's a door and I thought if I, but at the time I was like, I really want to go home, so I just legged it, just legged it down the corridors and someone went you're very lucky someone was looking down on you in that surgery and I said, yep, thanks see ya and I just legged it cos I just wanted to go home. I rang my mum and she was like, what's up? And I was like I'm so on a bench outside the QE with a costa can you pick me up? she was like what shouldn't somebody be like, you know, just went home and obviously got the call to say it's cancerous and radiotherapy. So though, yes, started this programme in the November and
Sarah:What made you start that was was it just seeing that picture of yourself on the beach?
Liam Young:It was, yeah, it was that and just knowing that I needed something to do and have somebody holding me accountable for kind of everything and just wanting to lose weight and be a different person. I wanted to be the ultimate person that I needed to be and the main thing that I wasn't happy with was my weight. So yeah I've done that for a year and I've funnily enough, I've just kind of finished the programme, actually and it's been 12 months since I started and I've lost almost 4 stone and I now run more kilometres than I ever used to, you know, when I first started, I could barely do like three kilometres down my street now I'm doing, you know, Manchester marathon. I did Man vs Mountain, which was an 8 hour trial run up and down Snowden was just a segment of the run. But there was a point up Snowden where I was that destroyed, I had to sit down and I fell asleep for two minutes and this Geordie guy went, come on mate you're not dying, get up and get on with it and it just resonated with me so much. I thought, No, you're not dying, like this is nowhere, this is nowhere near what you went through last year, get up and crack on and finish the race and that's the thing, like what I was saying earlier about putting my body through these experiences and just trying to challenge my body. Weirdly, I just want to test myself even more you know, I'm running Manchester marathon like I say next year and I want to do more and more of that and.
Sarah:Do think there's a part of you because you didn't know what was going on in your body, in terms of the tumour. You knew something wasn't right but you never imagined it was a tumour when you first had this lump, do you think it's made you more I don't know what my body's capable of, you know, in terms of not just something negative, but actually if that can happen and I wasn't aware of it. When I think about my body got me through that surgery, my body got me through recovery. Has it almost reinforced that feeling of feeling a bit invincible now that you can overcome anything?
Liam Young:Yeah so obviously, since the surgery, I've not touchwood I've never had a headache, and there's no lump. So I feel like the person that I was three years before the surgery, so I feel 18 again, weirdly it's taken like 10 years, I'm 28 now. So I feel like I'm 10 years ahead of what I want it to be in that personalities. comeback and you know, my girlfriend said it in my family and everyone said like you are so much of a better person. After the surgery, like you're so much more confident and you're so much more chatty and you so happy. I think I'm just more self aware of what happened and I'm now not afraid to talk about it because when I was going through it, it was like okay just treated as routine go to work, don't mention it crack on, get it done. But now after doing so much exercise and going on runs, and there are no bad things about running, that running only brings benefits unless you twist your ankle. But even then, you still exerting, letting out endorphins and whatnot and just having time to kind of think about things be it creatively or just thinking about everything and clearing your head. That is what really does for me, and any kind of exercise, you know I'm not telling anybody to go out and run a marathon, like just go for a walk.
Sarah:You talks about that accountability, how important do you think having that personal trainer was for you?
Liam Young:It was the best thing I've ever done. It was the best decision I've ever made. So it's more of like a life coach as opposed to a personal trainer. So although he sets me and I've never met him in real life, it's all online. So although he sets me kind of workouts to do, and you know, says today you need to run this distance then tomorrow, you need to go to the gym, and then this this this. They also set a diet plan and you send photos of your food and you track those calories and you also talk about mental health and sleep and everything around your life. It's like a full life coach experience and I just felt like I had somebody in my corner going through the next year of my life, like how do I transform myself now? What am I going to be and we spoke a lot about the tumour, and he was kind of like what he's done is done now, like, that is part of you, that is who you are and you shouldn't be embarrassed to talk about it and I mean, that's probably why I'm on this podcast now, because I reached out to you guys and that was the first time I reached out. I never reached out during any of this and it's only when I realised what I'd been through, and I'm happy to talk about it is that I need to talk to charities about it and I think like you've we've mentioned, the recovery side of this is so maybe even more important for mental health, especially for men, I would say, with running I think women are happy to seek out counselling and I hope this isn't doesn't sound stereotypical.
Sarah:treatment, do exactly what you did don't want to talk about it. I just want to get through this and I think that's what's really interesting about your story is the route you took. You didn't shut down counselling, you tried counselling, when it was first offered, you kind of went okay, I'll try this. But it wasn't for you and this route of having a personal trainer. It's not necessarily a route that people would go down for mental health, but actually your right, exercise and all of that, that whole accountability in that it's really important for men, particularly who would struggle to sit down one on one and talk to a counsellor. It's such a different way of approaching what is the same thing, because this is a trauma, like you said it was something deeply traumatic that you went through, you need to find some way of processing that.
Liam Young:Yeah 100% I think men, we like checklists, we need to set goals however big or small. So I think being with a personal trainer, you're constantly setting goals of like, okay, next week, I'm going to run further. Next week, I'm going to lose this amount of weight, etc, etc. And going through that and seeing results and that's automatically going to make you feel happier, especially for me, because I knew I wanted to lose weight. So when I'm sitting here now 4 stone lighter, or I know that that's, that makes me feel happy. I've run and I beat my distance, and I beat a personal best, and that makes me feel happy. So automatically, I'm happier and I don't know if it's taking my mind off the trauma, but I feel like it's just it's just helped me so so much to realise who I am like, what I was when I was, you know, struggling before the surgery, I was just a lazy, miserable guy. But now I know that I am Liam who had a brain tumour and went through hell and back and runs around like a madman, that's me.
Andy:It's a really positive outcome, isn't it the whole
Liam Young:100%
Andy:On a slightly practlcal level how did you actually find the guy you worked with so if anyone's listen to this going I fancy a bit of that how did you sort of get involved in that?
Liam Young:It was just through a friend, so my friend had gone on programmed just to lose weight and he had like a really good transformation and I just said, Who is this? Who is this magical person that you're working with? And he pointed me in Reece's direction
Sarah:And can I just ask on that you said he made plans and everything and he knew about your brain tumour. Did he ask you, any of your medical history to keep you safe?
Liam Young:Yeah when you sign up there's kind of like are there any medical conditions that, you know, would hinder you to join in the programme? Or are there any things that you definitely can't do? And they will cater your situation around, you know, their programme, like it's not just one programme for everybody, like it's not one size fits all. It's like, okay, your programme is bespoke to you. Obviously, I preferred running than going to the gym and doing weights so we focus more on the running. People go in there with vegan diets and have no gym membership, and they work from home and have a gym set up in their garage and only eat vegan food and still work around that. So when he said have I had any medical conditions? I said I had a brain tumour, but now I don't so I have nothing wrong with me, pushed me to my limits and that what we've done.
Andy:You said before you got a titanium plate, where the skull was has that. I'm just curious, has that either had any impact on anything you can't do or and when you're running can you feel it? I mean, it's not gonna rattle around, obviously, because it's connected but do you notice it's there? And can you feel it? I'm just curious, because it must be interesting having that foreign metal object in your head.
Sarah:And it is actually a question that we get asked, like, can I do exercise and things when I've got so that's why I asked the question of did they ask because it's something that quite a lot of people sort of asked the questions about.
Liam Young:Yeah no, well, I if I touch my head, I can feel the plate in certain ways, but it doesn't affect like, I don't know it's there, like it's just part of my skull. I don't go off at airport scanners either, luckily, everybody always asks like do you off at the airport scanner? No I walk straight through. But I can't header a football ever again. I can't like, you know, go on a motorbike probably probably not the best idea from jumping motorbikes, because any kind of impact to that side of my head is going to be pretty dangerous so I'm conscious of it
Andy:No contact sport effectively.
Liam Young:Yeah no playing rugby, but I'm happy to just run on the roads where nothing is going to be unless it's a pigeon.
Andy:But you straining yourself physically isn't an issue anymore because I've heard some people ask about that well, if you've had this, people messing around in your head, almost might it impact some of the blood vessels and then if you really strain yourself lifting weights or doing anything like that, is that an issue? It doesn't sound for you like there is I know everyone's different. But for you, it sounds like to me want to.
Liam Young:No like I said earlier, like before the surgery, obviously, I wasn't exercising as much, but I still went for the occasional run and that was when it really was like, an issue after running like I could feel, it literally felt like my head was pulsating, that lump was pulsing so much and I was just destroyed and I just wanted to sleep and get in the shower and like, pass out, I felt sick. It was terrible. But no since the surgery, obviously I've never had a headache. I feel great and physical exercise, I come back and feel amazing, get a good sweat on and getting the share and there's no feeling of anything to do with my head anymore, which is great to know because it says it reinforces that you know, I am now okay, and you know, I'm still in remission technically, you know, this type of tumour to be completely transparent, could possibly come back no one knows like, we don't really know exactly what that tumour was. We just know it was a solitary fibrous tumour, that's all we know and they treated it like another tumour that was existing because it was pretty similar. But again, we still don't know exactly what that was so yeah,
Sarah:For anyone listening exercise is a really, really positive thing and getting a personal trainer seemed to be the thing you needed and I think that's amazing. Always check with your doctors and your medical team before you do start any exercise programme but I think you're, you know, a really clear example, and a really good example of there's more than one way to approach dealing with this and coming through this and it isn't always the standard routes that people go down. You can be quite creative in your recovery and you might not have gone into it thinking this is going to help me mentally recover from the trauma that I've been through because initially, it sounds like it was just you really just wanted to get yourself in shape, because you weren't happy with the way you looked. But actually the knock on impact of that is it's really helped your whole recovery, not just physical recovery, but mental health wise as well, through this whole experience. .
Liam Young:Yeah 100% like joining up on the programme, I'd no plan to think about my mental health, like you say it was just purely weight loss, but it just kind of been like going through that it has to be spoken about to my trainer, and we've spoken about it loads and yeah, it's just kind of come hand in hand with the exercise of like, oh, actually, this is sorting my head out and as I'm going further and further, these thoughts are coming back up with more and more and I'm just digesting that situation. Even more now and still to this day, like there's still things that are looking at like reading through my letters last night to prepare for this this podcast. I was sitting there going that's that's heavy, like I can't I've read that years ago and I'm just reading it now going, this tumour is not cancerous. It's a benign tumour. No, it wasn't really, seeing me signing on to the surgery, like saying, you know, the worst that could happen is a lot of blood loss and potentially death and I was like, well, that was pretty much where I was lots of blood loss you know, brain damage could have happened. But luckily, you know, it didn't and I had a second chance genuinely I had like a second chance is what I think, I know it sounds cheesy but it's like a rebirth right of my person yeah
Andy:You say you like pushing yourself and testing the limits, I suppose so is the wedding next on the cards.
Liam Young:She definitely deserves it right? Luckily, I am still with the same one yeah.
Sarah:For anybody listening to this, what would be your parting words, if there's a young guy that's where you were what would you your advice be to them?
Liam Young:I think first of all, if you find a lump or you just have an inkling that something is wrong, just go and go to the doctor and get it tested and try and push for a scan, because that seems from my experience as soon as that ultrasound, we knew something was wrong, and you automatically got referred to the neurosurgeon, I wish that would have happened faster. It didn't. So anyone listening like, yeah, if you've just got a feeling that something's there or something isn't right, you know your body better than anybody. So do try and push for a scan with your doctor and then I think the other part of it is, you know, for anyone who's been through this, and is now recovering and doesn't know how they feel, and they're trying to digest it, yet, maybe physical exertion is the best way to deal with that and process that and, like I mentioned, like, I'm not telling people to go out and do a marathon and push their body to its limits, but it's like, just try and go for a walk, then push that to a short run, then run a little bit longer. It doesn't even have to be running, go on your bike, go to the gym, only benefits to physical exercise and it does as you say your mental health like it does sort out your head and it gives you time to think about what you've been through and deal with that trauma. For me anyway, that's, that's the best thing that I did after radiotherapy was getting on a fitness programme. But like you don't even need to be on a fitness programme, just short, like building up slowly, whatever is comfortable for you, like I say, don't try and run marathons and run up a mountain for eight hours, you know, just go for a walk, go for a hike.
Sarah:Well, it sounds like how it takes a buddy with you someone that can hold you accountable, because there will be days when you don't feel like it, particularly when you are in a bit of a bad space about what's going on because that is what happens. I think naturally, when you go through a process like this, you're in survival mode, you come out the other end of it and that's when you're more likely to find yourself stuck and kind of really traumatised by what's happened and having that person that's going to be there to kind of get you up and say, Come on then we're going out, come on, we're going to do this or that you said, checking on what you're eating or what you're doing, like in that feeling of like I can't let this person down or I'm not going to lose face by not having my work done and whatever.
Liam Young:Yeah, totally and it's like, you know, now that after the programme, I every Sunday, I run with somebody who's a better runner than me and that's another piece like I think accountability is the key word. Hold yourself accountable for so many things and I think this is probably more to do with exercise than anything at all, but just holding yourself accountable in as many ways as you possibly can. It's so important to stay on that right track of you know, your journey throughout life right and I know it sounds a bit deep. But if I say to my my mate we're going for a run on Sunday, we're gonna go do 30k and be out for three hours. If I don't feel like it that morning tough on I'm not gonna let I can't let him down. He's holding me accountable and'm holding him accountable as well if he wants to go and run. So yeah, definitely, like say, going out with people is even better.
Sarah:Yeah because it's very easy after going through an experience like, like you've been through to go the other way from where you've gone to slide down and to find yourself not getting out of bed, you know, hitting a wall really have this just happened and really struggling to get back up after that mentally.
Liam Young:Yeah I think it was the main thing for me actually, if I think about it was like just one huge radical change, like, as that radiotherapy finished, we just moved into our house. So that's a radical change of now living with my girlfriend, I'd just quit my job and gone for a new job that was another radical change and I started exercising, which was a radical change. So it was a totally different lifestyle, then and that's the lifestyle that I live now. Again, I'm not telling people to go and get a mortgage and quit their jobs but that was just my situation. So I think trying to change something that you kind of were unhappy with or you want to do just get it done because again, that sounds cheesy, but life is too short to just wait around.
Sarah:Sometimes the change is good, isn't it? Because trying to go back can be really difficult, isn't it when you've gone through something like this, a bit like the pandemic, you know, everyone was so focused on getting back to normal, when really extreme things happen going back to normal isn't always either possible or helpful because even if you make a full recovery it changes your whole perception of life, doesn't it? So going back to who you were is really difficult.
Liam Young:Yeah 100% you're definitely gonna be a different person anyway.
Sarah:Thank you so much, Liam. It's been absolute pleasure talking.
Andy:Actually. It's been brilliant.
Liam Young:Thank you so much.
Sarah:If you've enjoyed this episode, it would really help us if you could head on over to Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review as it really helps podcast like this to reach more people. Thank you